Eclipse Questions & Clarification

[Mars Hall]

I've just been turned on to ESP guitars (looking for a Les Paul style w/o worrying about Gibson's QC). Was thinking PRS Singlecut, but then saw the price tag on the ESPs and couldn't believe it.

1) What do you all think about the overall craftsmanship of your ESPs, especially the fretwork? Is there a reason they cost less than Gibsons, PRSs, etc?

2) Is there a difference in quality of construction as it pertains to Eclipse II Standards and Eclipse Customs? I've heard the wood is better in the Customs, but I do NOT care for neck-thru construction. The price difference is significant...I want to know if I'm gonna be on the losing end as far as workmanship goes.

3) I'm a bit turned off that the body isn't as thick as a Les Paul...anyone know why? I'm tempted to find a Euro version because I understand that they are the same thickness as an LP. Is the Euro quality as good? I wouldn't think there would be a difference. And, does it bother any of you that your Eclipse is thinner than an LP?

4) I probably won't care for the EMGs (choice will be driven by color, leaning towards the vintage white), has anyone had trouble swapping pickups?

5) Is there a significan tonal difference between the rosewood fretboards and ebony? I've always favored rosewood, but have never played an LP style w/ ebony.

THANKS! I hope to be a happy ESP owner soon!

[BrazilianBootyLover]

Just get the esp. Fuck gibson! They suck compared to esp.

[Ignoramus]

Mars dude,

Sounds like you haven't gotten your hands on one. Unless it's not an option, you need to play one. I drove 3 hours to find one, and couldn't let it go. I have the Eclipse II, and I love it. Craftsmanship and attention to detail are superb, and in my opinion, much better than a comparably priced Gibson. Frets are jumbo, but for me, they just encourage me, and they don't stifle me. I can't comment on the Custom, and I don't think I'd want to wait to have one built (that's just me). The body is indeed slimmer than my Gibson LP Standard, but I find it more ergonomic, and obviously it's lighter. I specifically sought this model out, since I wanted the EMGs -- for hard rock/metal, the combo can't be beat. If you're wanting a clone to a Les Paul, an Edwards LP would be more your thing. Scope out www.thegearpage.net -- you'll find a whole legion of Edwards fans. FWIW, the flamed maple top Eclipse II comes stock with passive SD pickups:

http://www.espguitars.com/images/guitars/eclipse_IIFM.jpg

I also specifically sought out this model because of the ebony board. For me, it totally works. The differences are pretty well known between ebony and rosewood -- to my ears, the Eclipse sounds as it should with the ebony board. Don't try to equate the Gibson LP with an Eclipse -- they're different beasts. But between the 2, I'd sell my Gibson waaaaay before my ESP. Even snagged a 2nd ESP recently, and haven't regretted it for an instant.

Good hunting!

[Mars Hall]

Thanks for the reply, Ignoramus. BBL, that was useless.

I dunno about the Edwards...the thing is I can't play one first. Also, I don't know if I want an exact Les Paul knockoff with another name on the headstock. That's a bit cheesy IMO. That's why ESP and Hamer are appealing to me.

I agree that I need to play the Eclipse first...and I may drive a couple hours to do so. The main reason I'm interested is the price point and the (apparent) consistency of quality (over Gibson). I just read somewhere that the Ecliplse II standards don't really have a maple top, just a thin veneer. Is that true? That's a little disheartening to me. I've also read that the thinner body makes them sound more like an SG than an LP, which I don't really want. Sigh....

[indytruckboy]

Yea, they make the thick bodies now like Gibson. Look arouund a couple of posts here and you will see what I am talking about.

[BrazilianBootyLover]

I just read somewhere that the Ecliplse II standards don't really have a maple top, just a thin veneer. Is that true?

Your thinking of the ltd's. The ltd's have paper thin veneer tops. The esp's have reral maple tops.


BBL, that was useless.

Everything you said every single noob ask. All you had to do was look around an you would found a thread explaining why esp's are better.


I agree that I need to play the Eclipse first...and I may drive a couple hours to do so.

I'm driving 3 hours away to try out vht amps and caparison guitars. It doesn't bother me. Better then buying something blindly.

[Thrashman]

I've just been turned on to ESP guitars (looking for a Les Paul style w/o worrying about Gibson's QC). Was thinking PRS Singlecut, but then saw the price tag on the ESPs and couldn't believe it.

1) What do you all think about the overall craftsmanship of your ESPs, especially the fretwork? Is there a reason they cost less than Gibsons, PRSs, etc?

ESP Craftmanship is top notch. Excellent. The fretwork is perfect, and in my eyes no Gibson or PRS can compare to an ESP. The reason to them having lower price is just.. Better company. :D

2) Is there a difference in quality of construction as it pertains to Eclipse II Standards and Eclipse Customs? I've heard the wood is better in the Customs, but I do NOT care for neck-thru construction. The price difference is significant...I want to know if I'm gonna be on the losing end as far as workmanship goes.

Eclipse Custom's are made in the custom shop, or mass-produced so to say, they're hand made more or less, so that's why the price is where it is. No matter if you buy a Custom, II, or a CTM(european eclipse model being based on the gibson custom, but is not custom made), you get TOP NOTCH quality.

3) I'm a bit turned off that the body isn't as thick as a Les Paul...anyone know why? I'm tempted to find a Euro version because I understand that they are the same thickness as an LP. Is the Euro quality as good? I wouldn't think there would be a difference. And, does it bother any of you that your Eclipse is thinner than an LP?

The thinner body, I can't explain why, it weighs less, but the balance is perfect, stays where you put it. Also, they have released FULL THICKNESS Exlipses now(but only in europe?? dont know.), that are as thick as Gibson LP's, but weighs less because.... ESP's wood..kicks more ass. Or I dont know. Mystic wood:lol

4) I probably won't care for the EMGs (choice will be driven by color, leaning towards the vintage white), has anyone had trouble swapping pickups?

Absolutely not. Esp leaves a grounding wire so that you can switch to passives if you wish to, without any hassle.

5) Is there a significan tonal difference between the rosewood fretboards and ebony? I've always favored rosewood, but have never played an LP style w/ ebony.

Slight. Rosewood sounds warmer than ebony does, but I prefer ebony. More punch. The difference is not significant in my eyes, more than the slightly punchier sound and better looking fretboard.

THANKS! I hope to be a happy ESP owner soon!

If you buy one, you will be. :)

[Ignoramus]

Seriously, just get your hands on one, and your trepidations will dissolve. I can't even comment re. the maple top, mostly because I don't care. A guitar that plays this well, sounds this good, has such quality components, and (to a lesser extent) is so aesthetically pleasing ... to me, agonizing over minutia like the thickness or the maple top seems trivial. I'm not sure I'd buy a new Eclipse II, then immediately swap out the pickups, but hey, whatever does it for you is all that should count.

If it helps, I bought my 2nd ESP (a 10+ year old Mirage II Deluxe) from pics, but had the confidence that the quality was there. I've bought Music Man guitars that way as well. I have 2 Gibsons, but I'd never, ever buy one without playing it first. YMMV.

[CarpeDiem]

ESP...All the way. Not a huge fan of Gibson myself. The eclipse hands the les paul it's ass in every catergory (sound, weight, finish, feel, duribility, ect..). IMO, I think the only thing Gibson is good at now a days is suing other companys for making a guitar that looks like their but sounds better and is half the price....I hold a grudge for the MXs being axed.

[Mars Hall]

Cool. Thanks for all the info. I've found that I only need to drive 30 min or so to try out an Eclipse II. However, I just found an Eclipse "Custom" on Ebay, which is "full thickness", so I've got my eye on that. I'm gonna start another thread about it to see what the general opinion is. Might be a bad idea though...could encourage some competition... :)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ESP-Eclipse-Custom-Rare-Awesome-Red-Burst-No-Reserve_W0QQitemZ130161415435QQihZ003QQcategoryZ33 038QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[KH Guitar Freak]

Hamer FTMFW!!!

[Mars Hall]

FTMFW??

Okay...just got back from playing the Eclipse II (VB). I really like the feel. However, I felt it was lacking in the tone department. May have been the pickups. I played it first, then played a LP Classic, them the Eclipse II again. Bottom line? I wish I could have the tone of the LP with the feel of the ESP. The LP definitely had MUCH more mojo in the tone dept. The ESP sounded kinda thin and lifeless. Acoustically, it wasn't nearly as loud and didn't have the sustain. I'm kinda disappointed because I really wanted to like it. However, there is the one on Ebay I mentioned above. Maybe I'll buy it. It's as thick as an LP and has passive pickups...

[KH Guitar Freak]

For the motherfucking win...

[Ravens Creed]

PRS Custom > LP Custom > Eclipse > LP Standard.
In my opinion. :)

Thats pretty much reflected in the price though too.

Dont worry about ESP build quality. Its top notch.

It all depends what sound you're after though. If you're after a Les Paul sound you wont find anything that does it better than a Les Paul or Les Paul custom especially. The Eclipse is probably a better lead guitar and has more punch for modern metal. The les Paul will have more warmth and more vintage tone. Thats just the way it is. The PRS will give you a bit of everything.

Ebony is (usually)a better wood than Rosewood, sounds tighter and brighter and plays faster. Rosweood sounds looser and warmer and grips more.

If you liked the lighter feel of the Eclipse but the warmer tone of Les Paul, try a PRS Custom 22 if you can stretch to it. Alternatively (and if money isnt a problem) choose an ESP Eclipse custom with your own choice of materials.

Actually, that Custom Eclipse on ebay looks perfect for you but dont be suprised if that price goes crazy in the last few hours. I've never seen an Eclipse like that. Not even a custom.

[tonymustang302]

I've played every guitar at guitar center, then played a eclipse II. night and day difference. It just feels better and you can tune down really low to play In Flames and Parkway Drive, without the slop that other guitars have. I would never trade my in for anything else. A friend of mine has the trmonti signature PRS pais $3000 for it and wishes he got to a esp before he bought it after playing mine. Mine is the sunburst II. Whenever i go to my local music shop i always get stopped because the ESP case and then nothing but compliments about the guitar and how much they wish they had one. THe finish is next to none, i love the satin look to it. EMG's are the icing on the cake, and same with the locking tuners. ESP is by far the best guitar company ever out there. The only reason i have an ibanez is because it was my first guitar from 8 years ago and i will never get rid of it because that.

[KH Guitar Freak]

I've played every guitar at guitar center, then played a eclipse II. night and day difference. It just feels better and you can tune down really low to play In Flames and Parkway Drive, without the slop that other guitars have. I would never trade my in for anything else. A friend of mine has the trmonti signature PRS pais $3000 for it and wishes he got to a esp before he bought it after playing mine. Mine is the sunburst II. Whenever i go to my local music shop i always get stopped because the ESP case and then nothing but compliments about the guitar and how much they wish they had one. THe finish is next to none, i love the satin look to it. EMG's are the icing on the cake, and same with the locking tuners. ESP is by far the best guitar company ever out there. The only reason i have an ibanez is because it was my first guitar from 8 years ago and i will never get rid of it because that.

I'd rather take the Tremonti sig than the standard series Eclipse I'm afraid...

I myself have the older revision Mark Tremonti USA model, and it kick ass...

And I paid NOWHERE near what your friend paid for mine, I paid less than USD2000 for one...

None the less, ESP FTMFW too...

And this was even when the American dollars was way higher too...

[Chonny]

ESPs are cheaper because they are made in Japan.

I would definitely say my ESP guitars compare to my US made guitars like Gibson Custom Shop Les Paul Standard 1958 VOS, PRS Custom 24, Jackson SL2H. The thing is these guitars are all production guitars even the PRS and the Gibson "Custom Shop." The ESP Eclipse is also a production guitar made in Japan and its not any less quality than my other US made guitars. At Gibson you get guitars produced by random American luthiers at ESP you get guitars made by random Japanese luthiers. Gibson's cost cutting is disgusting new Les Pauls arent even solid anymore and the wood is under par. Gibson Custom Shop is now a production facility and PRS is also just a fancy production guitar company now.

Unless you step up into the custom luthiers like Bernie Rico Jr, Trussart, Minarik, Neal Moser, Hill, etc you cant go wrong with japanese made ESPs in comparison to production guitars like Gibson, Fender, Jackson, PRS, BC Rich.

EMG pups are slightly bigger than normal humbuckers, which is why they finally came out with a set that drops in a normal humbucker route which is called the Zakk Wylde set but is just an 85 and 81 together that are not oversized. I prefer the latter. No clue what is stock on the new ESPs mine have the old style slightly larger EMGs. To add EMGs in a normal humbucker route you used to have to modify the guitar slightly in some cases. No idea if it causes problems dropping in a smaller sized passive pup.

Ebony is in my opinion the best fretboard available other than brazillian rosewood. I believe ebony produces bright highs and full warm bass and mids almost like brazillian. I have a couple guitars with braz rwd, indian rw, maple, ebony. Ebony is a close second to brazillian.

Have fun. Play some.

[ESPManiac]

Ok, well i own an ESP Custom Eclipse. I have to say, having tried several of Gibsons Art Historic, and LPC guitars despite the looks i will never want one. The ESP Custom has much more depth and organic sound. The mahog body, despite not bieng as thick is not lacking in depth at all. In comparison to the EC Standard II, which you mentioned you thought lacked in girth and tone, the Custom rectifies all of these qualities with high-class woods and hardware.

I personally love ebony, and only have guitars with ebony because i like the punch that it adds ontop of a guitar. For the Eclipse Custom, the ebony really helps add that extra clarity for your trebs and doesnt take away any of the midrange warmth that you can get from rosewood (i felt that sound coming from the mahog). Personally, EMGs work really well with this guitar, they offer a large ammount of depth which works well with the body and do NOT sound sterile regardless to what i have heard from people on here. (They do make white/cream EMGs).

Basically, ESP ECII is a great guitar with great fret-work and attention to detail. But, it can sound lacking when bieng compared to a large slab of mahog (the LP). The Custom although is bloody brilliant. Has even MORE attention to detail and the thinner body makes NO difference what so ever.

I recently showed my guitar to my guitar teacher, he was flabergasted! The body feels better, sounds better, and overall is better! The only thing that gets me about Gibson is i like their classic look.


ESP, a step forward!

[Chonny]

American production guitars are not like they used to be.

Your average Gibson SG Standard will be made with a 3 piece body. They do a very nice job of bookmatching the grain on top and back but if you look on the butt of the guitar you can definitely see the seams of the wood laminate. This is just cost cutting. Instead of spending the money for a solid nice piece of light density mahogany they get three smaller pieces and glue it together and save money. This is a technique American guitar builders have been using since the 80s and sooner. This is what I would expect from Korean guitars. I recently saw an ebony Gibson LP Standard in a Guitar Center and I could clearly see the seams of the three piece back though the paint when held at an angle. The transparent finishes do at least have two piece backs clearly visable. Clearly Gibson is using cheap techniques when they are supposed to be "the best guitars in the world." Today you gotta shell out the extra money for a Gibson Custom Shop which has turned into a production shop. But the Custom Shop Les Pauls are at least made out of light density wood, totally solid, most weight around 8.5-9.5 lbs. They have one piece backs with two piece tops. The Gibson USA Les Paul Standards are made out of cheaper high density wood which weighs a ton. In 1984 Gibson started drilling 9 one inch wide holes in the bodies to lighten Les Pauls, in 2007 they started chambering them. The solid Les Paul Standard no longer exists, you have to get a Historic. Les Paul Customs are now production model made by the Gibson Custom Shop and still feature the 9 one inch holes dubbed "swiss cheese holes." Look on the Les Paul forum for a pic of an xray of these holes. I predict the Les Paul Custom gets changed to either solid or the new chambering in the upcoming model years. If what Gibson says about the new chambering being better than the swiss cheese holes is true than it would be contradictory to their reasoning not to do so. If they make it solid we can draw other conclusions.

Get our coveted American guitars while we still can, in a matter of years all guitars will be made in Asia. Any US made guitar will be extremely collectible and valuable. Les Pauls will be made in China within 30 years I will guess. If you pull out a US made Gibson everyone will be like "Ohh now thats a classic."

Its not just guitars, outsourcing to foreign countries is only going to increase for all goods as years go by. But if you think about it, wood is wood. A tree is made out of sunlight, earth, and water all from the same earth. There is new industrial factories popping up all over the world. Hell some day there may be a Fender plant in Iraq. Bottom line is what it all comes down to. Someone is making your guitar and money is going into their company.

Think about Fenders for example. You have Mexican immigrants working on the north side of the border on US Fender guitars and then you have Mexicans on the south side of the border working on Mexican Fenders. Now think about the price of a US Strat in comparison to a Mexican strat. Is it worth the difference in price? Probably not but were willing to pay the extra money on the US guitar even though the difference isn't so much where its made but that they send all the cheap wood, hardware, and electronics to the mexican factory. If they sent the Mexicans good wood, hardware, and electronics they would be just as good, but they don't do that do they.

ESP in Japan gets good wood, hardware, and electronics and they aren't anywhere near as expensive as Gibson and are every bit as good, especially if you compare the ESP Japan line to the Gibson USA line. Another good made in Japan guitar is the Gretsch professional line and their Korean line is improving substantially. Gretsch used to be the Cadillac of American guitars and their Japanese guitars are very comparable to the coveted original guitars without being a 50 year old brittle vintage guitar.

PRS is a good company, maybe the best US production company at the moment, but if you go with anything too radical you're better off buying a guitar made by an actual custom luthier who will work on your guitar himself like Paul Reed Smith used to do. He isn't anywhere near those damn Private Stock $10,000 guitars when they are being built. Then he has the balls to make a Korean company with the name PRS SE which most people don't distinguish or know the difference between the originals. At least ESP calls their Koreans Ltd and Gibson has Epiphone, etc...

[DixSerina]

This thread is really funny too.

[Demon Child]

you should have wrote more, chonny!

[espdood]

Just get the esp. Fuck gibson! They suck compared to esp.

lol I love both models. The Gibson that I have sounded sweet and feels solid. The ESP is a better buy.

I'm driving 3 hours away to try out vht amps and caparison guitars. It doesn't bother me. Better then buying something blindly.

How are the caparison guitars?

[Chonny]

Ill write more.

I would want a slightly thinner body. In the 1950s when the LP started production Gibson had to make a name for themselves. The guitars were made as well as they could make them. They used the best instrument grade wood which is low density. This means the guitars are lighter in weight and more resonant, which makes them play and sound better. Low density wood is still in large supply but it costs a bit more, most guitar manufacturers want to make as much profit as possible off a single unit so they buy higher density wood and upcharge for better wood. This is the technical process behind someone saying "its better wood." They started drilling holes in Les Pauls to weight relief them and now they chamber them. A slightly thinner body should accomplish the same thing without compromising the solid body sound. Gibson could never do this because they have to keep the original mojo the same for the families that were involved in Gibsons history and to please artists like Les Paul himself who already took his name off the guitars once back in 1961 when they thinned them out. Thus leaving SGs (a solid guitar without Les Pauls name). The LP was reintroduced in 1968 after a large market was starting to brew because of the rock artists using them at the time like Clapton etc.

From a lumber distributer the best instrument grade mahogany might cost 30 bucks more for a blank but guitar companies will increase the prices by a ton, simply because they can. The best maple top (called 10 by PRS or 5A by Gibson) might cost 50 or so bucks more than a plain maple top but of course in those circumstances the price we pay is thousands more on top of a guitar that already costs thousands.

The best mahogany comes from Honduras but a lot of Chinese and Korean (probably Japanese, American, and European) companies use African mahogany. It varies in density and will result in different sounding guitars even of the same make and model. This is why you always want to try out as many Ltds or whatever import as you can to find one that best suits your taste. The average import guitar company just orders whatever wood they want for the price they want and it comes to them from wherever.

Foreign outsourcing is cool though in my opinion because those overseas factories allow a lot of people to afford guitars that they might not otherwise be able to.

[Thrashman]

I enjoyed reading what you wrote alot, Chonny! :)

Caparison guitars are kickass. totally up there with esp's. try one and you'll see :lol