Refret Advice

[jamesw]

I have a custom shop fender strat, which i loved playing until i got my m-ii a few months ago... since i got the esp, ive totally gone off the strat- i find it comparatively difficult to fret notes... the frets on it seem almost non existent in comparison to the esp ones. Therefore im considering having the strat refretted.

the advice im seeking is with regards to whether this is worth it- will substantially larger frets make that much difference to the way it plays? also, how much would i expect to pay for a refret?

[Fikealox]

In Australia you could expect to pay $350 for a complete refret (I think that's about 160 pounds). That varies a lot depending on who you go to, though, but I wouldn't pay much more than that.

I know for a fact that big frets make a huge difference in playability for me, but like anything, your mileage could vary.

[Matt Parsons]

Get it refretted with stainless steel. It'll cost a bit more but its SO worth it.

[Bouncepogo]

Pics of the strat!

[andrei]

hey Matt,

do you have a guitar with stainless steel frets?
i'm wondering if there are any negative aspects in this issue.

more info on stainless is appreciated.

thanks,

andrei.

@jamesW: i'd refret it, only if necessary, meaning: only if the fretwear requires it.

[sirsloop]

Why not just get another neck for the thing?

Here's a nice article about SS frets... fyi, I had plan old nickel jumbo frets put in my kitty's new carvin neck.
http://www.edroman.com/techarticles/stainlessfrets.htm

[jamesw]

Pics for the pogo (it is a Custom Shop NOS 1969 Strat)

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/thirdroute/12082008595.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/thirdroute/12082008598.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/thirdroute/12082008596.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/thirdroute/12082008586.jpg

there is minimal fret wear on the frets at the minute as the guitar only a few years old (the main reason why im reluctant to get a refret)... but i feel the small size of them is bugging me enough to make it worthwhile- i have an 80's encore strat (its much better than you might think... it plays better than 99% of strats ive played) that i find much easier to play- which i figure is due to its jumbo frets.

interesting reading re the steel frets- not sure theyre a good idea if they make the tone brighter- strats are bright enough!- tho the 69 one does have a comparatively deep,glassy tone.

i think ill just go for nickel jumbo ones

[Matt Parsons]

Why not just get another neck for the thing?

Here's a nice article about SS frets... fyi, I had plan old nickel jumbo frets put in my kitty's new carvin neck.
http://www.edroman.com/techarticles/stainlessfrets.htm

Ed Roman is a tool and an asshole. I didn't read the article, but he's not even remotely credible. Go see what he says about Japanese guitars...

EDIT:

Reading the article. WOW what an idiot. The Parker Nitefly I had had SS frets and it was not HORRIBLY BRIGHT AND TINNY SOUNDING ENOUGH TO CAUSE LISTENING FATIGUE. Simply not true.

hey Matt,

do you have a guitar with stainless steel frets?
i'm wondering if there are any negative aspects in this issue.

more info on stainless is appreciated.

thanks,

andrei.

@jamesW: i'd refret it, only if necessary, meaning: only if the fretwear requires it.

I owned a Parker Nitefly with stainless steel frets. It was like playing on butter. It made going back to the frets on my Edwards feel like sandpaper. Stainless steel is AWESOME.

The sound is supposed to be a little brighter with the stainless steel. Also, stainless steel lasts MUCH longer than nickel and won't need to be dressed or replaced as often. Win-win.

Here's a thread on the Gear Page about SS frets: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?p=2155825

[andrei]

thanks for the links, now i get the pros and cons about ss frets.
(wow, those guys on the gear page just kept going and going)

james, leave that strat alone!
it looks so sweet.
i keep my oppininon: if it aint broke, dont fix it.

congrats on the guitar!

and thanks for the info,

andrei.

ps: gonna order a warmoth replacement neck: ss frets, ebony fretboard, no inlays.

[KH Guitar Freak]

The sound is supposed to be a little brighter with the stainless steel. Also, stainless steel lasts MUCH longer than nickel and won't need to be dressed or replaced as often. Win-win.

Not quite, you would end up changing strings more often, unless you can't tell the difference in tone changes due to string wear... :p

At the end of the day, the cost apparently adds up to about the same really, so I reckon it's up to you...

Also, stainless steel, at least for some luthiers, charge stupid prices, and when you need to recrown them, the luthier would fuck you over again...

[Pharaoh]

Not quite, you would end up changing strings more often, unless you can't tell the difference in tone changes due to string wear... :p

At the end of the day, the cost apparently adds up to about the same really, so I reckon it's up to you...

Also, stainless steel, at least for some luthiers, charge stupid prices, and when you need to recrown them, the luthier would fuck you over again...

You mean by fucking you over that you don't agree with having to pay for the luthier to replace his tools after doing the fretjob for you? Because that's what happens with Stainless work... Warwick's bell-brass ones too. (Though not as much)

As far as the nickel silver frets on an Edwards above feeling like sandpaper compared to the stainless ones on your parker fly, you got a shitty fretjob on your Edwards. If it was done well, they feel about the same. Most of the feel difference if any is usually vibrational. Some folks seem to note more vibration being transferred underneath their fingers. I have both and don't notice it, but it would for some, be the reason they suspect a difference in tone as well...

[chevy Z 302]

whatever you do, get it PLEK'd

[KH Guitar Freak]

You mean by fucking you over that you don't agree with having to pay for the luthier to replace his tools after doing the fretjob for you? Because that's what happens with Stainless work... Warwick's bell-brass ones too. (Though not as much)

As far as the nickel silver frets on an Edwards above feeling like sandpaper compared to the stainless ones on your parker fly, you got a shitty fretjob on your Edwards. If it was done well, they feel about the same. Most of the feel difference if any is usually vibrational. Some folks seem to note more vibration being transferred underneath their fingers. I have both and don't notice it, but it would for some, be the reason they suspect a difference in tone as well...

You must have misinterpreted me, but I ain't going to pay AUD 300 more just to get a stainless steel refret, but then again, that luthier might have just been trying to rip me off...

[Matt Parsons]

You must have misinterpreted me, but I ain't going to pay AUD 300 more just to get a stainless steel refret, but then again, that luthier might have just been trying to rip me off...

That's how much it costs. Stainless steel costs so much more not because the frets are expensive, but because the tools are destroyed in the process of doing them. They're not trying to fuck you over.

You mean by fucking you over that you don't agree with having to pay for the luthier to replace his tools after doing the fretjob for you? Because that's what happens with Stainless work... Warwick's bell-brass ones too. (Though not as much)

As far as the nickel silver frets on an Edwards above feeling like sandpaper compared to the stainless ones on your parker fly, you got a shitty fretjob on your Edwards. If it was done well, they feel about the same. Most of the feel difference if any is usually vibrational. Some folks seem to note more vibration being transferred underneath their fingers. I have both and don't notice it, but it would for some, be the reason they suspect a difference in tone as well...

That's very interesting. Every account I've read of stainless steel vs nickel has been that stainless steel was much smoother and easier to do bends with. Of course I trust your word over some random internet guy. Thanks

[andrei]

i do understand why luthiers charge more for a ss job, than for a regular one.
but on warmoth, for installing ss frets, you only pay +20usd.
i think it's worth to try it out (i do need a replacement neck), don't you?

why are the extra expenses so low at warmoth?
don't they do a good job?

[sirsloop]

It was pretty much the same at Carvin. It was $15 bucks for jumbo nickel frets, or $40 for jumbo SS. Maybe they have special tools that are designed for SS? I'm guessing that most luthiers do 99% of their work with nickel frets, and try using them on SS and they get waxed.

Just a FYI, I'm very happy with my carvin neck that I got... look great, plays fast, frets are perfect. Its one piece maple with an ebony fretboard, jumbo nickel frets, and abalone inlays.

http://bbs.espguitars.com/showthread.php?t=20908&highlight=kitty - more pics

http://tmp.smugmug.com/photos/324433900_BSs7V-XL.jpg

http://tmp.smugmug.com/photos/324432752_BsxrX-XL.jpg

[Pharaoh]

That's very interesting. Every account I've read of stainless steel vs nickel has been that stainless steel was much smoother and easier to do bends with. Of course I trust your word over some random internet guy. Thanks

lol...wasn't trying to make it my word over anyone else's. Simply though, fretjobs are a learning process and definitely a "get what you pay for" thing in guitars that are right off the shelf.

In terms of fretwork and smoothness, I always explain to people that no matter the metal content of the frets (steel/nickel/brass) they should be smooth as glass...if they're not, it's usually more of a case of someone doing a less careful and meticulous job in the crowning process. It took me the better part of the first year of my 7 years doing fretjobs to get it down to where I was happy enuff with my work to do it for the public. Yes, I read the books and learned the mechanics of it right off, but the time in hand-dressing out a fretboard can easily destroy or make the job for you and the customer.

Looking at my Parker, one of the things I hadn't thoought much about was that it's also a composite neck...the people doing the fretwork may have something their doing that adds a little slickness to it, possibly the final buffing since the fingerboard is polished out too. (My Fly is about 3 years old and I'm still finding buffing compund under the fret ends...lol) But ultimately, I find more feel differences between fretjobs from different luthiers than I do between different materials. It takes time to learn stability with crowning files and how to not buff a curve into the job at the end. Practice is the only way.

From what I've heard, but not seen in person, in terms of Carvin, and this is how the Parkers are done too, they have it down to a quick-cookie-cutter production thing which is cool. The frets come precut and shaped. They just gotta seat them in the slots. With today's machine-powered fret installations, there's alot less variance in the feel. They have 22 frets mounted and reasonably shaped in less than a minute or two. Then a final check guy can do the little dress work. But for those who hand-seat and crown things, it takes longer and more tools get used up. And it's not beyond doubt now to have seen the wide variety of different repair guys out there doing things their own way, each of which produces a slightly different result.

[KH Guitar Freak]

I would also like to add that that strat is sexy... :hat