Question about Poweramps/preamps...

[AlphabeticalSlaughter]

Alright,

I've seen a couple things about people using these poweramps and preamps, and what not, and I really wanna know, what are they, and how do they work?

Sorry if I am rather n00bish at the moment, I'm just curious...

thanks,

Tim

[daddydoomsday]

^You put both together and its like having a regular amp head. The poweramp supplys the volume to the speaker, and the preamp is pretty much your sound to the poweramp.

[DeathrollJM]

preamp...tone, gain stage
poweramp...the juice that powers the speakorz

[Matt Parsons]

The preamp generates the "guitar tone". The power amp amplifies the sound and adds its own flavor to it.

Rack systems like this are the only way to get "hybrid" amps. For instance, I really liked the preamp in the ENGL Powerball. And I really liked the power amp on the VHT Deliverance 60. With an ENGL E530 rack preamp and a VHT 2/90/2 rack power amp, I can get the ENGL preamp sound and the VHT power amp sound.

Several brands make pre and power amps. I know Mesa has the Triaxis and the Studio Quad, Marshall has the JMP-1, ENGL has the E530, VHT has the GP3, but other than that I'm not very familiar with them. Of course, the Line 6 POD Pro stuff can be rack mounted and used as an all-in-one preamp/effects unit/etc.

I wouldn't go with a rack unless you know exactly what you want. It can get pretty complicated and expensive, but in my opinion the flexibility is worth it, if you can't get your tone in a head form.

[AlphabeticalSlaughter]

I may look into it in the future, cuz I really dont know what I want.
Thanks guys.

[Matt Parsons]

If you don't know what you want, get a Line 6 POD XT Live. That has a ton of good sounding tones, and you'll be able to hone in on what you want.

The XT Live is great because even if you decide that you don't want to use it for amp modeling anymore, you can still use it as an effects unit, a MIDI controller pedal, a cab simulator, a back up rig, etc.. VERY handy, you'll have no reason to ever get rid of it.

[chevy Z 302]

I wouldn't go with a rack unless you know exactly what you want. It can get pretty complicated and expensive, but in my opinion the flexibility is worth it, if you can't get your tone in a head form.

i CANNOT express this more, especially with everyone around here that acts like a 4 year old staring at a bright blue light.


'oooh sooo preddy'


not that the OP did this, just in other instances.:)

[Matt Parsons]

i CANNOT express this more, especially with everyone around here that acts like a 4 year old staring at a bright blue light.


'oooh sooo preddy'


not that the OP did this, just in other instances.:)

:lol

Is it bad that I want to mod all the lights on my amp to blue? Like the ENGL SE EL34... Blue power switches on everything, blue LEDs everywhere, shit even change the Furman voltage reader to be red/violet/blue... I think that would look SEXY as hell.

[chevy Z 302]

no

you've obviously settled into HRI well

[daddydoomsday]

Got to keep in mind everything that goes with a rack setup too, well at least a decent one.

Power supplies, more cables, rack cases, and also rack stuff gets fuckin' heavy.

[AlphabeticalSlaughter]

Hey Matt, Im a little confused. If I were to buy the stombox model of the XT Live, it still works as a preamp? I honestly have no Idea how all that works, would that not mean that almost any multi effect unit could be a Pre-amp? Or is it just because it actually models the preamp tone and not just adds something to it the way, say, a distortion pedal would?

[Matt Parsons]

Anything that modifies a guitar signal is technically a preamp. You can use a distortion pedal into a power amp if you want.

That said, all the PODs are preamps. The Live models are built into a floor board, whereas with the non-Live models you have to buy a separate floorboard to control it.

[AlphabeticalSlaughter]

Alright, so what would be a good power amp to run it through?

[Strange]

Rack systems like this are the only way to get "hybrid" amps. For instance, I really liked the preamp in the ENGL Powerball. And I really liked the power amp on the VHT Deliverance 60. With an ENGL E530 rack preamp and a VHT 2/90/2 rack power amp, I can get the ENGL preamp sound and the VHT power amp sound.

Hey Matt,

Hybrid-ization aside, how does the E530 compare to the Powerball?

[daddydoomsday]

Alright, so what would be a good power amp to run it through?


Peavey has some good cheap tube poweramps like the 50/50, also carvin too.
You could go solid state as well, like the marshall valvestate poweramps, tubeworks and rocktron velocity poweramps.

These poweramps could be had in the $150-$300 range.:cool:

[AlphabeticalSlaughter]

Peavey has some good cheap tube poweramps like the 50/50, also carvin too.
You could go solid state as well, like the marshall valvestate poweramps, tubeworks and rocktron velocity poweramps.

These poweramps could be had in the $150-$300 range.:cool:

Thats awesome, I definately think Im gunna consider this for an amp choice.

[LordCliffton]

bad news: those Peavey tube power amps have been discontinued for several/10 years-ish now... but they are available used(big duh, right?)

FWIW,, Kurt Cobain used a Boss Turbo Distortion(and a EH Small Clone), into a Crown Power amp, & then into several 4x12 cabs. He toured extensively and with widely varied success.

I say get a tube power amp-make it at least 50 watts if not 50/side.

The attached photo is essentially the rig of destiny... add a tuner to it & its virtually perfect.

peace

[AlphabeticalSlaughter]

What would be the opinion of the Digitech GSP1101? I like all the amp models on it, would I just be better off with the POD XT?

[Matt Parsons]

If you like it, go for it! I don't have any experience with the Digitech. I do recommend you go to a store and try it out before you buy it.

[DeathrollJM]

What would be the opinion of the Digitech GSP1101? I like all the amp models on it, would I just be better off with the POD XT?

my experience with the digitech, the multi effects processors (like the amp modelers) sound like crud. the XT would be a bit better.

cheap power amp solution, carvin makes cheap (but great quality) solid state power amps, well worth looking into.

[Strange]

I'd go with the Pod over the Digitech. Totally.

Line 6 basically picked up where Digitech fell off in terms of sound and build quality.

[DeathrollJM]

I'd go with the Pod over the Digitech. Totally.

Line 6 basically picked up where Digitech fell off in terms of sound and build quality.

+1

their pedals still kill line 6 though. line 6 continues where digitech and vox left off when it comes to modeling. however i think peavey kicks all their asses with the revalver.

[AlphabeticalSlaughter]

however i think peavey kicks all their asses with the revalver.
Isnt that a computer program though?

[xXxEvilCorexXx]

Look into the Randall MTS series amps. They are, for lack of better terms, a hybrid. You have the flexibility of a rack but in head/combo form. or you can buy the rack set up w/ 4 modules and buy a poweramp. The only problem i can see with these is that unless you have the chance to test the different modules you may end up spending alot on something you wont like. but again on the pro side you have alot of flexibility with out having to buy a bunch of amps or using amp modeling.
http://www.randallamplifiers.com/products/amplifiers/mts/index.asp
Good luck

[daddydoomsday]

^Yeah those randall's are very cool. Not the first of its kind though, there used to be a seymour duncan amp that housed its own modules, forgot what the name was ( I think it was called the convertable or something ) but it was pretty much just like the randall mts series.

[DeathrollJM]

Isnt that a computer program though?

yeah i was just pointing out the versatility of modeling devices. that would be cool if peavey made a rackmount version of the revalver...they would put line 6 out of business.

[DeathrollJM]

Look into the Randall MTS series amps. They are, for lack of better terms, a hybrid. You have the flexibility of a rack but in head/combo form. or you can buy the rack set up w/ 4 modules and buy a poweramp. The only problem i can see with these is that unless you have the chance to test the different modules you may end up spending alot on something you wont like. but again on the pro side you have alot of flexibility with out having to buy a bunch of amps or using amp modeling.
http://www.randallamplifiers.com/products/amplifiers/mts/index.asp
Good luck

a thing i noticed about those randalls is that they do not have cascading tube distortion, becuase they only contain only one tube to create the distortion, and any additional help from distortion is mosfet. on top of that a solid state power amp, i would imagine that it would have a very buzzy tone with a hint of tube warmth, not giving that aggressive in your face tone of tubes, and would lack tube feel.

still i played a vetta again to really listen to the tone, even that isn't all that great. line 6's modeling is way to processed, too much high end way too boomy, still i think that would be better than the MTS series but not by much.

[metalhobo]

a thing i noticed about those randalls is that they do not have cascading tube distortion, becuase they only contain only one tube to create the distortion, and any additional help from distortion is mosfet. on top of that a solid state power amp, i would imagine that it would have a very buzzy tone with a hint of tube warmth, not giving that aggressive in your face tone of tubes, and would lack tube feel.


MTS amps have all tube power amps, 4x6l6 in the 100 watter. There are two tubes in each module. The modules aren't even complete preamps anyways. I am pretty sure there are 3 additional preamp tubes housed on the amp chassis.

http://www.randallamplifiers.com/products/amplifiers/mts/images/zoom_rm100m.jpg

[ZephMan13]

I'm not trying to hijack the thread or anything but how can you mix a preamp/poweramps wattage? do they have to be the same?

[Rex Rocker]

Pre-amps don't have 'wattate' rating... well, not that I know of...

[DeathrollJM]

MTS amps have all tube power amps, 4x6l6 in the 100 watter. There are two tubes in each module. The modules aren't even complete preamps anyways. I am pretty sure there are 3 additional preamp tubes housed on the amp chassis.

i stand corrected. still since their isn't a drive control on the onboard tubes, they can't cascade...and two tube cascading is not much not for high gain, those tubes are doing too much handling all the distortion. it wont sound as thick and crunchy.

[DeathrollJM]

Pre-amps don't have 'wattate' rating... well, not that I know of...

actually the rating of standard preamp outs is about 5 watts (give or take on each preamp), granted thats the amount of "work" thats provided from the going voltage of that device.

[AlphabeticalSlaughter]

Man, reading all this makes me realize how much I need to learn.

[Matt Parsons]

Man, reading all this makes me realize how much I need to learn.

Just get a head :p Racks are for advanced guitar geeks.

[ZephMan13]

SO I could mix like:
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/5/2/8/537528.jpg
and
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/8/4/9/535849.jpg

[Matt Parsons]

SO I could mix like:
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/5/2/8/537528.jpg
and
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/8/4/9/535849.jpg

I don't know why you would want a solid state power amp. 90% of what is considered "tube tone" comes from the power tubes.

[DeathrollJM]

I don't know why you would want a solid state power amp. 90% of what is considered "tube tone" comes from the power tubes.

actually

tube "tone" comes from the preamp

tube "feel" comes from the power amp

[Matt Parsons]

actually

tube "tone" comes from the preamp

tube "feel" comes from the power amp

That's not the case...

A POD into a tube power amp will give very realistic, tube-like sounds.

A tube preamp into a solid state power amp will still sound solid state.

If what you said was true, people wouldn't talk about tubes sounding different, but feeling different.

[DeathrollJM]

i meant where they centralize...listening to a pure preamp...you can easily tell which is the tube...the preamp contributes more to the tone...as well as the feel, the tone is more apparent. with the power amp, in the overall sound they contribute to the feel a bit more, but they still effect the tone.

that would make sense why guys who have modeling preamps claim that modelers sound like tubes, but they lack the feel, and in order to get a realistic tube sound, by adding a tube preamp, they get the tone and feel of a tube amp.

where others i have heard even say that running an effects send from a pure solid state amp into a tube amp is what gives the biggest impact of getting a tube sound

to my speculation between playing the different 3 amps (SS, digital and tube) to me the biggest difference between them sound wise is their feel, and a tube power amp gives that feel, which is sometimes (most likely all the time) is confused for the "tone"

the biggest thing tone heads are going after is that vintage tube feel...that seems to be the highest priority above the tone...the biggest thing that all tone heads are after especially if they have digital gear, is to get a tube poweramp, and from my experience, the power amp is responsible for "most" of the feel, the preamps are responsible for "most" of the clipped "tone". the power simply shapes the sound, its an ambient change, but its that "small" change that makes tone heads journey through the mecca of a great sounding rig.

[Rex Rocker]

A tube preamp into a solid state power amp will still sound solid state.
I agree, but that doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing! :)

*cough*http://cachepe.samedaymusic.com/media/quality,85/brand,sameday/fit,330by330/T2H-65a7ded2fcabe10021bd1bf674381e14.jpg*cough*

[Matt Parsons]

Of course not! I actually really like the way solid state amps push low end and lower mids. I would love to try a crossover setup with a tube amp pushing the highs and high mids, and a SS amp pushing the lows and low mids

[DeathrollJM]

Of course not! I actually really like the way solid state amps push low end and lower mids. I would love to try a crossover setup with a tube amp pushing the highs and high mids, and a SS amp pushing the lows and low mids

that would actaully be a good idea...SS amps do better with the lower half...tubes do better with the upper half.

might be interesting to see how that would work.

now the question is how to combine the two power amp signals into one input.

[Matt Parsons]

that would actaully be a good idea...SS amps do better with the lower half...tubes do better with the upper half.

might be interesting to see how that would work.

now the question is how to combine the two power amp signals into one input.

Stereo cabinet.

[DeathrollJM]

Stereo cabinet.

then you have two separate speakers with different frequencies, which guitar cabinets are not meant to do anyways. there has to be some way to safely blend the power amp signals back together.

[Fikealox]

Why is it bad for two different speakers in the same cab to do two different frequencies?

[TheDevilHimself]

One argument you often hear is that racks with separate preamp/poweramps don't have the punch that a normal head has, the sound is not as direct "in-your-face". I personally think this is falsely attributed to these setups and a good combination will be just as good. Often the problems probably come from poor cables, too much different units through which the signal has to travel etc.
I just wanted to point this out, because you do hear the argument from time to time and wonder if it is true.

[Matt Parsons]

then you have two separate speakers with different frequencies, which guitar cabinets are not meant to do anyways. there has to be some way to safely blend the power amp signals back together.

You could run both the power amps into a Weber mass, run the line out to a mixer, then run the summed signal into a clean SS power amp, but that'd be a lot of work for an unnecessary result...

A stereo cabinet would be fine. What you're talking about doesn't even matter.

[DeathrollJM]

You could run both the power amps into a Weber mass, run the line out to a mixer, then run the summed signal into a clean SS power amp, but that'd be a lot of work for an unnecessary result...

A stereo cabinet would be fine. What you're talking about doesn't even matter.

separating the signals into multiple cabinets makes more of a nightmare trying to mic them both which becomes impossible when you blend them to not have a phase issue. now if there was a dual input mono cab, that would fix everything. correct me if i am wrong but are their any of those out there?

[Strange]

One argument you often hear is that racks with separate preamp/poweramps don't have the punch that a normal head has, the sound is not as direct "in-your-face". I personally think this is falsely attributed to these setups and a good combination will be just as good. Often the problems probably come from poor cables, too much different units through which the signal has to travel etc.
I just wanted to point this out, because you do hear the argument from time to time and wonder if it is true.

We played with Krisiun about a year ago and their guitarist was running a rackmount Pod / power amp setup. Not sure what kind of power amp he was running but his tone was awesome!

[AlphabeticalSlaughter]

A little off topic from my own thread, but I figure this question isnt worth another thread... Has anyone tried a Randall RH50T? Someone I'm buying a cab off of is selling one for $400.

[daddydoomsday]

A little off topic from my own thread, but I figure this question isnt worth another thread... Has anyone tried a Randall RH50T? Someone I'm buying a cab off of is selling one for $400.

i never tried it, but Im sure your goin to get tons of valveking comments pretty soon:lol

[Matt Parsons]

A little off topic from my own thread, but I figure this question isnt worth another thread... Has anyone tried a Randall RH50T? Someone I'm buying a cab off of is selling one for $400.

They go new for $530: http://www.dcmusicstore.com/Randall-RH50T-Amplifier

I'd try to get him to come down in price.. I'd do it for $350.

[AlphabeticalSlaughter]

i never tried it, but Im sure your goin to get tons of valveking comments pretty soon:lol
Haha, more then likely...
They go new for $530: http://www.dcmusicstore.com/Randall-RH50T-Amplifier

I'd try to get him to come down in price.. I'd do it for $350.

Im trying to get the head and cab for $550. But I just found a guy selling a Randall RH100G2 for $350, so I'm gunna try and pick that one up. I need my frigin marshall to sell :mad:

[Matt Parsons]

What cab? What speakers are in it?

[DeathrollJM]

Haha, more then likely...


Im trying to get the head and cab for $550. But I just found a guy selling a Randall RH100G2 for $350, so I'm gunna try and pick that one up. I need my frigin marshall to sell :mad:

a stack for 550, your asking to play shit, the valveking is an ok tube amp and that is 500 alone

your better off buying a POD and getting adapters to plug it into a 150 watt stereo at like best buy (and thats really sad).

[Rex Rocker]

G2's are absolutely awesome amps. I love them to death they sound BIG, they sound mean, yet they still sound VERY tight.

Valvekings are great amps too... honestly, I don't know which one I like better...

[AlphabeticalSlaughter]

a stack for 550, your asking to play shit

Woah, woah, WOAH! Before we jump on the hate train, the head is a Randall RH50T, which I was only asking an opinion about. The 2x12, that I'm buying anyways, Has Celestion 80 watt speakers, for $200, it just so happens its the same guy selling both.

[daddydoomsday]

Woah, woah, WOAH! Before we jump on the hate train, the head is a Randall RH50T, which I was only asking an opinion about. The 2x12, that I'm buying anyways, Has Celestion 80 watt speakers, for $200, it just so happens its the same guy selling both.

Dude, if it sounds good to you and you like it, then thats all that should really matter. Remember to try before you buy.

[AlphabeticalSlaughter]

Dude, if it sounds good to you and you like it, then thats all that should really matter. Remember to try before you buy.

To me thats really a lie... I mean, I can like the sound, but if it is seriously ballsack sound, then noone is gonna want to listen to the music I play...

[Matt Parsons]

Woah, woah, WOAH! Before we jump on the hate train, the head is a Randall RH50T, which I was only asking an opinion about. The 2x12, that I'm buying anyways, Has Celestion 80 watt speakers, for $200, it just so happens its the same guy selling both.

Celestion 70/80s or CL80s? CL80s, DO IT. 70/80s, I'd pass.

[AlphabeticalSlaughter]

I dunno what they are, all I know is they are 80 watt speakers.

[daddydoomsday]

To me thats really a lie... I mean, I can like the sound, but if it is seriously ballsack sound, then noone is gonna want to listen to the music I play...

So you cant tell the difference between a good sound and a ballsack sound? I have heard plenty of high end amps sound like shit cause of the player, and plenty of low end amps sound pretty good cause of the player. What Im trying to say is that even though an amp makes a big role in your tone, its only part of your tone.

What I said wasnt a lie, tone is subjective. Play what sounds good to you.:cool:

[AlphabeticalSlaughter]

So you cant tell the difference between a good sound and a ballsack sound? I have heard plenty of high end amps sound like shit cause of the player, and plenty of low end amps sound pretty good cause of the player. What Im trying to say is that even though an amp makes a big role in your tone, its only part of your tone.

What I said wasnt a lie, tone is subjective. Play what sounds good to you.:cool:

Haha, no what I mean is, it may be a tone I like, but people listening think it sucks. Like personally, I don't like alot of tones that most people do, I think Dual Recto's are totally overrated. I used my drummers dads Roadster half stack one day when jamming and I hated it. I screwed around with the sound for like an hour and couldnt get one I like, I guess thats why its all personal preference, but I can imagine I'll get alot of smack talk over my tone if I post my music on here, haha.

[Rex Rocker]

they are seventy 80's if he's selling it for that... those are not terrible speakers, but not excellent either.

If he wants 550 for the whole thing, I think it's a fair price if it's in very good to excellent condition.

[DeathrollJM]

that randall is a solid state right?

if so, eh my opinion would be to pass. but if you like saturated fuzz, thats fine by you. but to me that is what every solid state sounds like.

and it doesn't matter if they are celstions, they can be shit, i mean look at he line 6 voiced celestions...pure garbage. again you said that you want to be able to enjoyyour tone, yet you want everyone who listens to you to enjoy it as well, i ahte to break it to you, but the price your looking for will not satifsy. even if it does satisfy you, and only you, usually if its not a great expensive amp, you will outgrow it really fast, (in my case i went from a 60 watt CRATE solid state to a line 6 spider II with a genz benz 212 cab, took me only a year and a half to outgrow the head, and i guarantee that the margin from your current amp is not as huge as the difference between my two amps were.

[AlphabeticalSlaughter]

Im probably not going to buy either... I just wanted to know what others thought. As for the Randall G2, I'm going to try it out, I actually like solid state... Also Deathroll, the Randall I was talking about with the cab for 550, is a tube amp.

[DeathrollJM]

what randall again is that? the distortion difference between a tube and solid state will blow you away, you like solid state prepared to be blown away by a GOOD (thats the keyword) tube amp.

if you can get a good quality Randal tube amp i think you would be pretty set, my only concern would be the cabinet. a good cabinet can make a bad head sound really good, and a bad cabinet can make an amazing amp sound like shit. i think the cabinet should be selected carefully.

[AlphabeticalSlaughter]

Most likely Im gunna be running it through a Mesa 412. So I think its gunna sound good. The tube Randall I'm talking about is the RH50T.

EDIT: I have compared my ss marshall to a JCM800, as well as a dual recto roadster, I also compared them to a T2, and frankly, I dont really like tube amps. The JCM wasnt brutal enough, and the boogie was just hard to get a nice sound out of. The T2 was nuts though, and I dont like my Marshall. I'd like to try an engl or 5150 though, before I decide tube is not for me...

[Rex Rocker]

what randall again is that? the distortion difference between a tube and solid state will blow you away, you like solid state prepared to be blown away by a GOOD (thats the keyword) tube amp.

I'm losted about what amp he's getting... the RH50T is a tube head, the G2's are full solid-states. I haven't tried the RH50T, to be honest, but I don't feel the G2 sounds like fizz at all... I personally tried a Randall G2 when my guitarrist was buying one side to side against a Marshall TSL and, although the tone of the TSL was more 'musical', the gain on the Randall was much bigger, much tighter and much more agressive. I'm not saying it sounded better, I'm just saying one could find pleasing characteristics in a solid-state a well.

I like the V2 and T2 better than most tube amps as well. I like to think of a T2 as a 5150 on steroids. I also like the Vetta better than some tubeys.

i mean look at he line 6 voiced celestions.
yeah... well, I've read around the Line 6 forum that the Line 6 Celestions on Spiders and Flextones are actually seventy 80 design labeld with Line 6 name :lol. The speakers on my guitarrist's Randall (seventy 80's) are much better IMO than the speakers on all the rest of the Spider II's I've played. They feedback much less easily and seem to have more headroom (at least to my ears). There are indeed better speakers than seventy80's, but I wouldn't call them crap.... at all...

[LordCliffton]

SO I could mix like:
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/5/2/8/537528.jpg
and
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/8/4/9/535849.jpg


Perhaps.. but if you mix these together instead...

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/5/2/8/537528.jpg

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/1/4/6/240146.jpg

Then you'd be doing MUCH better & headed in the perfect direction. :hat

For real.

[DeathrollJM]

EDIT: I have compared my ss marshall to a JCM800, as well as a dual recto roadster, I also compared them to a T2, and frankly, I dont really like tube amps. The JCM wasnt brutal enough, and the boogie was just hard to get a nice sound out of. The T2 was nuts though, and I dont like my Marshall. I'd like to try an engl or 5150 though, before I decide tube is not for me...

the tube amps that you have played are uter shit, seriously though. would you really find it odd if all the professional players all use tubes and not solid state if tubes sounded like shit. There's a lot out there, like Peavey, Splawn, Orange, Bogner, Deizel, Genz Benz, VHT, Krank, Egnater, Soldano, Framus. Marshall and a majority of Mesas suck, play a real tube amp, (by real that pretty much eliminates EVERYTHING at guitar center). and until you get a chance to try one out, why dont you take a listen to some videos on youtube, i was just looking around and honestly most clips dont sound as good as half of those amps sound in person.

here some places to check out.

www.rcksolidamps.com
http://www.youtube.com/user/guitarslingerans (ans's youtube on the Engl SE and Savage)
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=464985&songID=3741595 (engl fireball)
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=621787 (poid's soundclick, filled with framus, engl and 5150)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slEboEJGlls (orange, with a little bit of comedy!)
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6409907 (me/my band with the revalver 6505, the real 6505/5150 tone sounds better, especially in person)

[daddydoomsday]

Im probably not going to buy either... I just wanted to know what others thought. As for the Randall G2, I'm going to try it out, I actually like solid state... Also Deathroll, the Randall I was talking about with the cab for 550, is a tube amp.

Just get an Ampeg VH140C. I swear its the best ss out there. Very brutal, used by bands like Suffacation, Misery Index, Dying Fetus, Impaled and a whole bunch of other death metal bands. Its a 140 watt SS stereo amp, but it sounds like tube watts, its very loud and cuts through nicely. You can usually find them on ebay around $350-$450, since the demand has gone up on them.

[AlphabeticalSlaughter]

Deathroll, you seem to be giving a very bias answer. Number one, your saying a dual recto is shit? I dont like them, but they wouldnt have the rep they do if they were crap. I can also list quite a few pros who use SS; Killswitch Engage uses line 6, Firewind uses Randall SS, All that remains uses Randall SS in their live show. Thats just three, and thats the kind of tone Im pursuing.

[Rex Rocker]

KSE use Splawn Nitros (I'm not sure if Adam still plays his Mesa Roadster) and All that Remains use Peavey 5150s...

And yeah, I stand in favor of the Rectifiers as well. I love the Recto rawness and bigness in its tone. I'd personally get myself a Recto or a Mark IV first than a Powerball.

Deathroll, it seems you and I have the exact opposite concept of what a good tone is.... lol, each to his own, right? :lol

[Matt Parsons]

Ampeg VH140C is the best SS amp. All other SS amps ( non-modelling ) fall to their knees at its brutal glory.

If you can't get a good tone out of a Mesa you're a noob. Sorry. That's just how it goes. They're definitely not the best sounding amps and they can be difficult to dial in, but they definitely can sound great.

[Dark Alone]

Ampeg VH140C is the best SS amp. All other SS amps ( non-modelling ) fall to their knees at its brutal glory.

If you can't get a good tone out of a Mesa you're a noob. Sorry. That's just how it goes. They're definitely not the best sounding amps and they can be difficult to dial in, but they definitely can sound great.

That's subjective. :p

[daddydoomsday]

^Haha, yes ,yes it is subjective.

I like the mesa mark tone better than the recto tone though.

[AlphabeticalSlaughter]

KSE use Splawn Nitros (I'm not sure if Adam still plays his Mesa Roadster) and All that Remains use Peavey 5150s...

I didn't know KSE used Splawn, the last I checked they were running Line 6. And from what I know ATR uses 5150s in the studio, but randalls on the road, so once again, I love their live tone.
Ampeg VH140C is the best SS amp. All other SS amps ( non-modelling ) fall to their knees at its brutal glory.

If you can't get a good tone out of a Mesa you're a noob. Sorry.
Thank you I try. Seriously though, an hour and a half and I couldn't get a tone I liked.

EDIT: I do love the Orange Tiny Terror tone, but I need an amp with 2 channels... And I cant really afford any of the other Orange amps.

[Rex Rocker]

I didn't know KSE used Splawn, the last I checked they were running Line 6. And from what I know ATR uses 5150s in the studio, but randalls on the road, so once again, I love their live tone.

Nah man, I'm not sure if they use Line 6 gear, but I don't think they use Line 6 amps. Before the Splanws, they were using Mesa Roadsters and before H&K Switcblades... I've also heard of them using 5150's and Triple Rectifiers, Soldano Slo's, Framus Cobra, Framus Dragon always boosting with a Maxon OD808, but I've never heard of them using Vettas or Flextones or HD147's. They're currently using Mesa Lone Stars for cleans.

What Line 6 gear have you heard of them using?

:)

[DeathrollJM]

Deathroll, you seem to be giving a very bias answer. Number one, your saying a dual recto is shit? I dont like them, but they wouldnt have the rep they do if they were crap. I can also list quite a few pros who use SS; Killswitch Engage uses line 6, Firewind uses Randall SS, All that remains uses Randall SS in their live show. Thats just three, and thats the kind of tone Im pursuing.

your right, my answer is biased towards tubes simply becuase they provide the most alive sound. maybe saying mesas suck is a bit harsh, they aren't the best out there but compared to most tube amps, they aren't that great. their attack is a bit to loose to guess with the br00tz, though some band use them, their tone isn't the tightest.

and killswitch has never used line 6, just because they have a KSE preset on the spider sires, doesn't mean the use them, they just helped them develope some presets for the diehard KSE fan to say "the presets i use were actually dialed in by adam and joel, zomg, im gonna faint"

and randall solid states are going to be the closest thing to tubes compared to say most other brands becuase they are the only ones to go overboard with mosfet. still from what i hear, from studio and live: they have a tube sound yes, but they lack a bit of warmth and their highs are still a bit harsh, they still seems to have a solid state feel, just with a tube sound.

And yeah, I stand in favor of the Rectifiers as well. I love the Recto rawness and bigness in its tone. I'd personally get myself a Recto or a Mark IV first than a Powerball.

Deathroll, it seems you and I have the exact opposite concept of what a good tone is.... lol, each to his own, right? :lol

have you ever played a mark IV? i think the tone that lamb of god achieved on ashes of the wake was pretty accurate to how they sound...and merely, they are raw sounding, but they are overloaded on the paper like nasal mids. the powerball...and i've overlooked the schematics pretty good and they match the schematics of the 5150 pretty perfectly, a few changes exist, but if you want a suped up 5150 sound, the fireball and the powerball is where its at.

my idea of good tone is quite that a picky one, not a bad one, i know what is total garbage, what is just okay, what is good and what is total god mode. i like to have a dark natural raw tone, something crisp, thick, and when i sit down in from of a 6505 stack, im usually like what i am hearing.

as for saying i know the exact opposite of what tone is, have you heard my "new" tracks, i even posted one in this thread.

[AlphabeticalSlaughter]

What Line 6 gear have you heard of them using?

:)
I actually dont really know, all I know is a friend of mine told me he wants an HD147 because thats what killswitch uses. I just assumed they did because Line 6 has one of their Artist presets as a Killswitch style tone, I guess I shouldn't believe everything I hear :P.

So what is the overall opinion on the Valveking around here? I'm guessing its pretty low... I was just offered one for $300 locally so I was thinking about picking it up.

[DeathrollJM]

the valveking is great...dont expect to plug straigh into it and get the br00tz, it does not have much gain, you will need an OD to boost it up bit.

[Rex Rocker]

I think the ValveKing is a great amp. If it's a combo, the speakers are kinda crappy, but I think the head has a very very nice tone. It does not have as much gain or saturation as a 5150, and it's voiced less modern, but they share that very same Peavey midrange growl. I think it can do heavy tones very well on its own, but throwing an OD in there might be interesting as well.

[AlphabeticalSlaughter]

Alright, I think I'm gunna go try it out.

[DeathrollJM]

I think it can do heavy tones very well on its own, but throwing an OD in there might be interesting as well.

really? everytime i've played one played direct, i had the gain dimed and it sounded like a clean channel with the gain turned up a substantial amount.

i think that you could get more gain on a 5150 clean channel than you can a valveking lead channel.

if you want a 5150/6505 amount of saturation, you will need a boost. Or you could lower the impedance on the input resistor, if you do it yourself it might only cost you a couple of cents, maybe $10 to have a tech do it.

[AlphabeticalSlaughter]

really? everytime i've played one played direct, i had the gain dimed and it sounded like a clean channel with the gain turned up a substantial amount.

i think that you could get more gain on a 5150 clean channel than you can a valveking lead channel.

if you want a 5150/6505 amount of saturation, you will need a boost. Or you could lower the impedance on the input resistor, if you do it yourself it might only cost you a couple of cents, maybe $10 to have a tech do it.

I'll probably just run my DS-1 through it.

[Rex Rocker]

really? everytime i've played one played direct, i had the gain dimed and it sounded like a clean channel with the gain turned up a substantial amount.

like I said, not nearly as much gain as the 5150, but I do think it can do well on its own. I do think it has enough gain on its own. I'd throw in an OD not for the gain, but for the tightening and the different tone it would get.

I'm not sure if I remember correctly, it's been a while since I've played one, but I think the lead channel has a switch that engages a bit more gain... perhaps you forgot to turn that on or something.

2aTO0Z-B274

Not my vid, but that dude mention in another of his vids that he doesn't run any pedals in front of it (on that vid)...

On the Revalver Mk. III model, the gain is pretty mediocre, tho... you DEFINITELY need a boost on that one, but not on the real one, IMO.

[DeathrollJM]

^hes got something boosting that signal, the valveking gets nowhere near that much gain.

[DeathrollJM]

I'll probably just run my DS-1 through it.

b prepared to change the tone though...look into getting a clean boost pedal.

[Rex Rocker]

Footswitchable gain/volume boost on lead channe
Yeah, apparently it does have the boost I mention.

vE5Qb4SVqU8&

[AlphabeticalSlaughter]

Thats pretty sweet. So right now, its down to the Valveking and the Randall RH100G2...

They both have decent reviews, I'm just gunna go try them out and decide. Thanks for the help anyways guys.

[Matt Parsons]

So much for a rack :p

The Valveking is a nice amp. My experience is pretty limited though. It can definitely do metal, but metal requires a lot less gain than you think.

[AlphabeticalSlaughter]

Trust me, I've learned that. The whole rack thread, was basically just to understand it. I considered it, but for me, its too confusing right now. I'm gunna be doing some small gigs this summer and I figure, its time to find an amp I'm willing to hold onto for a while, hopefully I like one of these.

[daddydoomsday]

Trust me, I've learned that. The whole rack thread, was basically just to understand it. I considered it, but for me, its too confusing right now. I'm gunna be doing some small gigs this summer and I figure, its time to find an amp I'm willing to hold onto for a while, hopefully I like one of these.

I think you will bro, let us know what you wind up getting.

Seriously, check out the Ampeg vh140c if you can.

[AlphabeticalSlaughter]

I think you will bro, let us know what you wind up getting.

Seriously, check out the Ampeg vh140c if you can.

I'll definately let you know. I just wish I could find the Ampeg, I dont even see one on the bay.

[AlphabeticalSlaughter]

Well, unfortunately both amps sold before I was able to test them... But I just found a shop a little bit outta town, and they stock Vox amps. I tried the AD100VHT head and I have to say, that thing sounded great. Has anyone ever had any experience with these?

[Matt Parsons]

Well, unfortunately both amps sold before I was able to test them... But I just found a shop a little bit outta town, and they stock Vox amps. I tried the AD100VHT head and I have to say, that thing sounded great. Has anyone ever had any experience with these?

I was about to buy one but due to a shitty dealer and a good deal ( at the time... ) I ended up with an HD147 instead.

The Vox can sound very nice. Get a good 212 with V30s or CL80s and you'll have a semi-pro rig.

[AlphabeticalSlaughter]

I was about to buy one but due to a shitty dealer and a good deal ( at the time... ) I ended up with an HD147 instead.

The Vox can sound very nice. Get a good 212 with V30s or CL80s and you'll have a semi-pro rig.

Well, Ill be running it through a Mesa 4x12, so I think thats pretty decent :P.

[Matt Parsons]

Damn! How'd you get one of those?

[AlphabeticalSlaughter]

Haha, basically, my drummers dad is a crazy metal head, he's who got me into it, and he bought a Roadster about 2 months ago, he never uses the cab though, because he uses his old Marshall Cab with V30s in it. He lets me use the boogie cab cuz he doesnt use it unless hes gigging(in which case he runs a JCM800 and the roadster in stereo on each side of the stage). So for the time being, I get to use a boogie 412 :D.

[Matt Parsons]

Man, a JCM800 and a Roadster in stereo... That must sound amazing.

He's a really nice dude to let you borrow a cabinet like that. Any head will sound good on a Mesa cab with V30s. But a nice head will sound much better. A mediocre head will need more tweaking and very likely an EQ pedal in the loop.

[AlphabeticalSlaughter]

Oh man the JCM and the boogie sound incredible together, even though I dont like them seperate.

Hes a great guy for letting us use his stuff, my other guitarist uses the whole JCM half stack, and hes always got awesome new equipment. Ironically, he has some of the sickest guitars(H.R. Giger Iceman and a Giger RG, a 70s LP with EMGs, a few Jacksons, a couple LTDs, and more that I cant think of...), all of which he is willing to let us use, the ironic part is me and my other guitarist are both left handed.

[gorsch]

the valveking is great...dont expect to plug straigh into it and get the br00tz, it does not have much gain, you will need an OD to boost it up bit.

not true at all. You must not have had the boost switch in. The other guitarist in my band has a valveking with nothing boosting it and it does fine with my 5150II. Check out some shitty recordings at www.myspace.com/nilmortamusic I say shitty because they were all done live in our practice space for when we were trying out vocalists, hence no vocals. We didnt really intend on posting it but we did. So forgive the EQ, just a tad off but all the gain is still there.
His gains only at 5 and mine is at 4. Maybe not uber brutal but we're pretty fuckin heavy. Good P-ups, good cabs, and good tubes is all ya need. Up front he's got just a chorus and a TU2. Doesnt even need a noise suppresor.